Bookkeeping doesn’t look like it used to. Between new Tax Practitioners Board (TPB) requirements, AML changes, payday super, multiple accounting platforms and the constant pressure of client expectations, bookkeepers are carrying more responsibility than ever.
In this episode, Bookkeeper Support founder Kelly Berger shares what she’s learned from 15 years running her own practice, training new BAS agents straight out of their Cert IV, and building an 8,000+ strong community of Australian bookkeepers. She talks about real-world training, practical systems, choosing the right tech, and the emotional load that comes with keeping other people’s businesses on track.
Whether you run a bookkeeping practice, work in one, or rely on a bookkeeper for your own small business, this conversation will help you understand what “good” looks like – and what needs to change.
Modern bookkeeper training has to go far beyond a Cert IV – it needs lived experience, practical problem-solving, and structure that matches how real businesses work, not textbook examples. The qualification is a baseline, but the real learning happens in practice with support, mentoring and clear processes.
Kelly is the first to acknowledge that the Cert IV in Bookkeeping and Accounting has its place. It teaches the basics and gets you over the line for BAS registration. But she’s blunt about its limits: the qualification doesn’t teach what bookkeepers actually spend their days doing – solving messy, real-world problems.
In training, you’re given tidy questions where you know there are three things wrong and a neat answer at the end. In practice, a client turns up with half-migrated data, missing invoices, a broken chart of accounts and a looming BAS deadline. There’s no multiple-choice option for that.
That’s why Kelly built Bookkeeper Support in the first place. What started as a “watercooler” Facebook group for solo bookkeepers has grown into a national community where people bring the ugly files, the confusing compliance questions and the “am I the only one struggling?” moments. From that community came retreats, courses and one-to-one mentoring designed to give bookkeepers what the Cert IV doesn’t: implementation.
Her model is simple but powerful. She takes people straight out of their Cert IV, drops them into real practice work, and surrounds them with checklists, templates and balance-sheet-first thinking. Rather than just talking theory, she shows them how to document a rescue job, prepare working papers an accountant can trust, and build repeatable ways to check their own work.
The message for business owners is clear: if you want reliable books, look for a bookkeeper who invests in ongoing training and lives in these kinds of communities. And if you’re a bookkeeper who feels out of your depth, it’s not a personal failing – it’s a sign you’ve been given a baseline, not a full toolkit.
Effective bookkeeping systems are simple, documented processes that anyone in the team can follow – not complex software flows that live in one person’s head. The goal is a clean balance sheet, clear working papers and continuity when staff change or clients grow.
Kelly describes herself as “ADHD and chaos”, but beneath that is a deep respect for structure. Supporting her autistic daughter, working with neurodivergent staff and running a busy practice forced her to find systems that work for different brains. The lesson: your processes have to be both consistent and flexible enough to fit the people using them.
In her world, everything comes back to the balance sheet. If that reconciles and you can show how you got there, the accountant’s job becomes dramatically easier. That means having documented steps for things like clearing suspense accounts, reconciling loans properly instead of journalling to core accounts, and keeping bank statements and working papers filed in a way that anyone can pick up.
Too many practices skip this groundwork. Kelly sees firms – including large ones – with no real procedures. When a key staff member leaves, the whole operation stalls and they have to bring that person back as a contractor just to explain how things were done. That’s not efficiency; that’s risk.
Her approach with clients and mentorees starts with one question: where is it falling over the most? Instead of trying to fix everything at once, she identifies the single biggest failure point and designs a simple, repeatable process around it. Sometimes that’s a tech solution; sometimes it’s literally a one-page paper form and a due date.
She also pushes hard on boundaries. Systems aren’t just for the work itself; they’re for how you work. Auto-replies that nudge emails into business hours, phones on Do Not Disturb after six, and scheduling tools that stop you sending midnight replies all train clients to respect your time. That’s not about being precious – it’s about staying in the industry long enough to be useful.
If you’re a business owner, working with your bookkeeper on systems you both understand is one of the best investments you can make. If they disappear, retire or grow out of your business, those processes become the bridge for the next person – not a pile of guesswork.
The right bookkeeping technology is the software stack that matches the business model, industry needs and team, not the one that wins the loudest shout-outs on social media. Every tool has strengths, weaknesses and a right-fit use case.
Kelly loves technology, but she’s very clear-eyed about it. She teaches across MYOB, Xero, QuickBooks, Reckon and Easy Business App because no single platform suits every client. A manufacturing business with complex job costing needs something very different to a small service business with simple invoicing.
This is where peer recommendations can do real damage. In online groups, the “What’s the best software?” question almost always gets the same default answer, regardless of context. Kelly pushes back on that. If a client has long-term plans – like exporting or expanding product lines – you need to know that before you lock them into a stack with 15 add-ons when a single, more comprehensive platform may serve them better.
The same applies inside bookkeeping practices. She uses Trello because colour-coding and visual boards work with the way her brain organises information. One of her team preferred Karbon for its structured, text-heavy workflow. Rather than forcing everyone into one tool, they mapped processes first and then found ways to translate those into each person’s chosen system without breaking compliance.
The takeaway isn’t “use Trello” or “use Karbon”. It’s: be deliberate. Start with what your practice actually needs – visibility, handover, due date control, documentation – and then pick tools that serve that, not the other way around. And don’t be afraid to say no to shiny new software if it adds complexity without solving a real problem.
For bookkeepers working with payment flows, platforms like Pinch can sit inside this tech stack to reduce double-handling and missed invoices – but, as Kelly would say, only if they genuinely make the business more efficient and less stressful.
Bookkeeper mental health is a genuine industry issue. Many practitioners are empathetic, often neurodivergent, and carrying the emotional and financial stress of multiple small businesses on their shoulders, on top of their own lives and families.
In Kelly’s community, conversations about compliance sit alongside conversations about depression, anxiety, PTSD and menopause. Many bookkeepers are women juggling caring responsibilities, kids on the spectrum, and the stop-start chaos of small business life. When clients treat them as an after-hours emergency service, the impact compounds quickly.
She’s candid about her own experience: burnout in practice, a serious injury, COVID-era financial stress and the reality that she simply couldn’t work the hours she used to. Selling her practice wasn’t a failure; it was a survival decision that allowed her to focus on support and training instead of carrying everything herself.
Boundaries are the first line of defence. In her retreats and workshops, Kelly sees the same pattern: bookkeepers letting clients text them at 8pm, answering emails at 10pm, and feeling guilty if they don’t fix everything immediately. Her advice is practical:
She also reminds bookkeepers that they’re not alone. If you’re overwhelmed, behind or confused about new requirements like AML or payday super, that’s exactly the moment to reach for community, mentoring or a short call with someone who’s seen it before. Burying your head in the sand doesn’t protect you; it just makes the eventual clean-up harder.
Stronger bookkeeper–accountant relationships start with clear boundaries, consistent communication and a shared focus on clean books and realistic expectations, not blame.
One of the most frustrating patterns Kelly sees is the communication gap between bookkeepers and accountants. Bookkeepers email with questions about how to handle a loan, where the accountant wants a particular adjustment, or who should take responsibility for a tricky transaction – and hear nothing back. Meanwhile, accountants get files full of journals to core accounts, unreconciled balances and no working papers.
The result is mutual distrust. Accountants assume bookkeepers are sloppy. Bookkeepers feel dismissed, second-guessed or blamed for things they weren’t empowered to fix. And the business owner, stuck in the middle, often has no idea why the relationship feels so tense.
Kelly’s view is that everyone has some work to do. On the bookkeeping side, it starts with competence and humility. You can’t demand a seat at the table if you’re not willing to keep learning, respect the accountant’s role on things like depreciation and tax planning, and own your mistakes.
On the accounting side, it’s about respect and clarity. If you need the file in a certain state for quarterly tax planning – balance sheet reconciled, specific schedules prepared – say so up front. If you prefer to handle certain journals yourself, make that clear and explain why. And if you’re unhappy with the quality of the bookkeeping, have the conversation like a peer, not a school principal.
For business owners, the simplest move is to insist on collaboration. Encourage your accountant and bookkeeper to talk directly, be cc’d into early conversations, and make it clear that neither party gets to ignore the other. Whether they’re from separate firms or under one roof, you’re paying for a finance function, not a turf war.
When the relationships work, everyone wins: bookkeepers get clear direction, accountants get cleaner files, and business owners get better advice based on accurate, timely data.
AI in bookkeeping is a powerful assistant for drafting, summarising and brainstorming, but it can’t replace human judgement, ethical responsibility or the nuanced understanding of Australian tax and bookkeeping rules.
Kelly is positive about AI tools like Claude and ChatGPT, but she treats them as exactly that – tools. They’re brilliant for speeding up document creation, turning a frustrated email into something professional, or helping you think through a messy problem. They’re not capable of deciding whether a grey-area expense is truly business-related or understanding the context behind a client’s behaviour.
Australia’s systems are full of nuance, exceptions and “it depends” scenarios. No generic AI model is going to safely navigate that without a human in the loop who understands local rules, the client’s history and the bigger picture. AI also can’t shoulder the professional responsibility that registered BAS agents and accountants carry.
Kelly encourages bookkeepers to experiment with AI in low-risk areas: creating checklists, brainstorming system improvements, or rephrasing policy documents. She also points out its value as an emotional safety valve – draft the rant to the difficult client, then ask AI to convert it into a calm, clear message before you hit send.
What she pushes back on is the idea that AI will make bookkeepers redundant. In her experience, it’s more likely to widen the gap between practitioners who embrace better tools and those who don’t. The ones who use AI to remove admin friction, support their learning and bolster their systems will have more time for the high-value, human parts of the job – relationships, judgement and support.
If there’s a thread running through Kelly Berger’s story, it’s this: bookkeepers are problem-solvers at the heart of Australia’s small business economy, but they’re often under-trained, under-valued and overwhelmed.
Improving that reality doesn’t require heroics. It starts with practical training beyond the Cert IV, simple systems that anyone can follow, tech choices that fit the work, honest conversations between bookkeepers and accountants, and boundaries that protect mental health. For business owners, that means working with your bookkeeper on systems and expectations. For bookkeepers, it means asking for help instead of quietly drowning. And for accountants, it means treating bookkeepers as partners in getting to clean, reliable numbers.
When those pieces come together, everyone gets what they really want: clear financials, fewer surprises and businesses that are easier to run.
Transcript lightly edited for clarity, readability and blog formatting. Timestamps, filler words and auto-caption artefacts have been removed where possible while preserving the meaning and flow of the original conversation.
Kelly: I’ve already done my Cert IV. I don’t need more training.
Joe: Yeah, pretty much every BAS agent is going to laugh at that. So why do they even need the Cert IV then?
Kelly: The Cert IV gives you the basics. It gives you the baseline. But there is so much more to what we do, because what we really are is problem-solvers. I don’t think they learn that in the Cert IV or even in a university degree. They miss that completely.
It’s like, “Okay, we’re going to give you a question here and there are going to be three things wrong with it.” That’s not reality.
Joe: You just don’t get the lived practice experience, right?
Kelly: No.
Joe: And is that what you offer?
Kelly: That’s what I offer, but I also offer the checklists, templates and things so people can recreate the process. When they’re balancing to the balance sheet, they need a structure.
Joe: Pinch Me, I’m Dreaming here at Darling Harbour. Look at this. It’s beautiful.
We’ve just wrapped up two days at the ICC, where we were at the Accounting and Business Expo 2026, and it was fantastic.
I’m very privileged for Episode Six to be joined by Kelly from Bookkeeper Support. Kelly Berger.
Kelly: Thank you.
Joe: Not Burger. Don’t be caught calling her Kelly Burger. How the bloody heck are you?
Kelly: I am great. I am deliriously happy right now. The conference is over. It’s done.
Joe: You must have been having such a great time.
Kelly: The party boat last night was sensational.
Joe: There were some interesting things that went down on that party boat.
Kelly: Oh yes. But what happened on the party boat stays on the party boat.
Joe: If you say so. I’ve been telling everybody.
We’re here to talk today about you, about Bookkeeper Support and about bookkeepers in general.
A bit of backstory: you’ve been a Pinch partner for a couple of years, you’ve been an ambassador of Pinch for a little while, and we’re obviously big ambassadors of bookkeepers.
Last time we were down here together was for the Small Business Expo. We went to Meat & Wine Co, had a steak and sat there having a chinwag about bookkeepers for about 45 minutes or an hour.
I remember thinking, “Kelly has so much to say and so much important stuff to say.”
That’s why we’re here now. I want you to talk to the world because I feel like, if there’s one person I’ve met who genuinely speaks on behalf of bookkeepers, it’s you.
Let’s start from the top. What is Bookkeeper Support and why does it exist?
Kelly: It started because I wanted a kind of watercooler presence on Facebook for bookkeepers.
I noticed there wasn’t really anything like it. There was no ICB, no ABN, nothing like that in that space at the time.
So it started as a watercooler conversation between bookkeepers who worked for themselves, where they could ask questions and figure things out together.
I got a couple of my mates on there, they invited a couple of their mates, then they invited a couple more.
Joe: I know how that goes.
Kelly: Eight and a half thousand members later, here we are.
We’re all there to support each other, guide each other and answer questions, especially in those moments where you’re thinking, “Oh my God, what am I doing?”
It’s been a fantastic community to run and be part of.
From that came my love of retreats and taking bookkeepers away from their normal environment and actually saying, “Let’s set up systems. Let’s do processes. Let’s make our businesses better.”
We’ve been doing those retreats for about 10 years now in different states. I learn a lot from them, they learn a lot from each other, and now we do a lot of implementation work as well.
From there came the courses and the training. A lot of that was also based on training my own staff in my bookkeeping practice. They came straight out of Cert IV and into my business, and away we went.
Joe: Talk to me about your practice years. How long were you in practice, and what caused you to make the switch?
Kelly: I was in my own practice for 15 years.
I went through six staff in that time, which was pretty good turnover for me.
Eventually, I was getting burnt out. Then I had an accident and broke my leg in three places. It never recovered properly, so I can’t work the hours I used to work.
I thought, “You know what? I can do all this online stuff in my own time and have the mindset and capacity to support other people.”
We’d also just come out of COVID, which was a really hard time for a lot of us. We struggled significantly mental health-wise.
I got to a point where I thought, “I just don’t want to do this anymore. This isn’t my passion anymore.”
I still do rescue work. I still get accountants ringing me saying, “Oh my God, this client has absolutely destroyed their books. Can you fix it?”
And I’ll say, “Yeah, sure, no worries.”
So I’ve still got my hand in it very much, but I’m just on a different platform now.
Selling my practice was the best thing for me. It took the pressure off, helped us get out of a lot of debt we accumulated during COVID across multiple businesses, and allowed me to put my whole heart into Bookkeeper Support.
Joe: So Bookkeeper Support has the Facebook group, retreats and online training. Am I missing anything?
Kelly: One-to-one mentoring, one-to-one guidance and training.
I also train small business owners to do their own books and help them understand their financials.
If they’re doing their own books at the beginning, when they’re a startup, they get a better understanding of what’s happening in their business.
Then, when they hand it over to a bookkeeper or accountant, they can say, “Hang on a second, that’s wrong.”
Joe: And by the time they hand it over, it’s not trashed.
Kelly: Exactly. They’re not behind on their taxes or obligations.
It’s about empowering them to stay on top of things and actually pay attention to their financials.
And we have fun.
Joe: I’m going to say something and caveat it by saying you know I don’t believe this, but I’m going to say it anyway.
“I’ve already done my Cert IV. I don’t need more training.”
Kelly: Pretty much every BAS agent is going to laugh at that.
Joe: So why do they even need the Cert IV then?
Kelly: The Cert IV gives you the basics. It gives you the baseline.
But there is so much more to what we do.
What we really are is problem-solvers, and I don’t think they teach that in Cert IV or even in a university degree.
They miss that completely.
It’s like being given a question and being told there are three things wrong with it.
That’s not reality.
Joe: You don’t get the lived practice experience.
Kelly: No.
Joe: And that’s what you offer?
Kelly: That’s what I offer, but I also offer checklists, templates and structures so people can recreate the process.
When you’re balancing to the balance sheet, you need a structure.
I’m ADHD and I am chaos. I’m not organised. You wouldn’t believe me behind the scenes.
I have a lot of people who help me create that structure.
When my daughter was diagnosed with ASD level two, I realised how much she needed organisation and structure, so I’ve always worked with her to create that.
I’ve had employees who are ADHD as well, and we all found different systems that worked for us.
One of my staff members was extremely structured. We had to find ways to balance what worked for both of us.
She was great at systems, so I’d say, “You create a system for it. Fantastic.”
I might not necessarily follow that system perfectly because I’m always in my head, but that was part of how we worked together.
My staff used to call me a computer brain because they’d come back two hours later and say, “What was that figure again? I’m going to have to look it up.”
And I’d say, “It was this, wasn’t it?”
Joe: Are you a list person?
Kelly: I like my lists, but I like them on paper because I love the feeling of going, “It’s done.”
Joe: That is so satisfying.
It’s such a good life hack for people who struggle with organisation because it trains your brain to associate completion with reward.
Kelly: Exactly.
If I write something down, it sinks into my memory as well. I don’t necessarily need to have the list in front of me all the time because it’s already there.
Joe: Externalising your memory.
Kelly: Exactly.
Joe: What would you say are the biggest problems bookkeepers face today?
Let’s go straight into the big ones.
Kelly: Probably compliance and keeping up with all the changes we’ve had.
The TPB changes, code of conduct changes, QMS implementation, AML coming out.
Everybody is struggling to keep up.
We’ve had change after change after change since COVID started.
My belief is: embrace the new.
Try to find a better way of putting systems, structure and processes in place.
It’s the only way to get through.
Eventually you become efficient and you understand things off the top of your head, but you have to accept that this is a constantly changing industry.
It isn’t going to slow down.
The more poor accountants and poor BAS agents we have, the more likely the TPB is to say, “We need to implement more systems and more compliance.”
As an industry, we need to shape up and say, “Let’s get all this in place. Let’s start making better bookkeepers and better accountants.”
Then hopefully the regulators say, “We don’t need to keep adding more because they’re doing the right thing.”
It’s the same with the ATO.
If we’re doing our job, they’re getting the money they should be getting. Nothing more, nothing less.
It all comes back to processes and procedures.
As much as people hate paperwork, it’s the only way to go.
I’m shocked by the number of accounting firms and large bookkeeping firms that don’t have processes or procedures in place.
Then they lose one of their key staff members and have to bring that person back as a contractor just to get the work done because nothing was documented.
I see it all the time, unfortunately.
That’s something that has to change.
Joe: When you see that, what’s the first thing you do?
If you had a new client and you could see they were disorganised and didn’t have many processes, where would you start?
Kelly: I work with the client and ask, “What’s your primary concern? Where is this falling over most significantly? How can we fix that?”
Then we identify something we can implement.
That might be technology, or it could be as simple as a paper form.
Anything that documents what needs to happen.
You need to be able to replicate it.
You need to be able to follow the system.
And it has to be simple.
I had an argument with my daughter’s school because every time we went away they’d give me this incredibly complex study plan.
I said, “Can’t you just tell me the course, give me the link to the information she needs and tell me the due date?”
It can be that simple.
So it’s very much about keeping it simple and making sure you have the right systems for the business and the staff.
When you’re training staff, everyone is different.
They don’t learn the same way.
Some people need more structure, others need less.
It’s about working to their strengths, identifying where they’re falling over, and helping them create a system that works for them but still remains compliant with the business process.
Joe: You mentioned tech there. What kind of technology have you been using lately to solve those problems?
Kelly: I’ve been playing with a lot of tech lately. I love tech.
I’ve been using things like Xbert, Practice Ignition and other established products in the market. Lightyear as well.
I saw a lot of new tech here at the expo, and people kept coming up saying, “Have you seen our tech?”
I’m very agnostic about it.
I don’t conform to one particular platform.
Joe: You don’t become a zealot for one piece of tech.
Kelly: Exactly.
I teach MYOB, Reckon, QBO, Easy Business App and Xero.
I teach all of them because not every system suits every person.
One system might work for one person and another system might work better for somebody else.
Trello works really well for me because it’s colour-coded and I can see the overview and chat with my mentees.
Karbon worked really well for my offsider Eva because it was highly structured.
For me, it was too wordy. I couldn’t wrap my head around it.
So when you’re training people or managing staff, it’s about adapting to what they need while still making sure your overall processes work.
Joe: You’re the first person I’ve heard mention Easy Business App in the same breath as the other accounting platforms.
Kelly: I’m a fan. I like Easy Business App.
I think they’re another up-and-coming player in the market.
They’re constantly evolving.
It’s a cheaper option for a lot of businesses and it genuinely is easy to use.
When they say Easy Business App, it really is easy.
I’ve done tutorials on it for mentees, we have clients using it, and I’ve even put my sister onto it.
You can jump in, get things done and find things very quickly.
When you’re going from something like MYOB AccountRight to Xero, it’s a completely different beast.
But once you understand the key structure and key elements of each piece of software, you’re fine.
It’s about adapting.
That’s what our industry needs to do more of: adapt to changes and embrace technology.
But you have to make sure the technology actually suits what your business needs.
Joe: That was a loaded statement.
When you say the technology needs to be what the business actually needs, are you talking about practices overusing technology or trying to force technology where it doesn’t fit?
Kelly: Exactly.
It depends on the business and the need.
One of the problems on social media is people ask, “What’s the best accounting software?”
And everybody gives the same answer.
I’m always sitting there thinking, “No. It’s about what’s right for your business.”
I’m not going to recommend Xero with 100 add-ons for a manufacturing company if MYOB AccountRight handles that situation much better.
Maybe it does better job costing.
Maybe it keeps everything on one platform.
I don’t want to recommend something that works only for now.
It needs to work for where that business wants to go in the future as well.
If they say, “We’re going to add exporting, we’re going to do this, we’re going to do that,” you need to know that up front so you can recommend the right software.
It’s the same with bookkeeping practices.
There are so many software options, but the question is: what actually works for us?
What do we need?
Where do we want to go?
Joe: AI. Love it or hate it?
Kelly: Love it.
Joe: How do you use it?
Kelly: I primarily use Claude.
I did use ChatGPT, but I found Claude a little more approachable.
We’ve even given Claude a personality.
My sister had a conversation with Claude one day and said, “Claude doesn’t feel right. What would you like to be named?”
And he decided on Flynn.
So Flynn is now my sister’s work husband because we use him all the time.
Joe: Oh dear.
I wonder if there’s a future where people will actually marry AI.
Kelly: Who knows?
AI is a fantastic tool, but that’s all it is.
It is a tool.
We still need to have our brains working.
The systems here in Australia are so varied and grey that I don’t think AI could fully function in an accounting context on its own.
It’s great for helping identify risks, identify issues and create information quickly.
But it can’t necessarily distinguish between a personal expense and business expense without an extremely specific, individualised setup.
Every person spends differently.
So how can it always distinguish that?
I don’t think AI is going to take over the world, but it is going to help us get information faster, create documents and templates more quickly, and save a lot of time.
It’s certainly helped me.
It also helps when you’re having a very bad day and you want to scream at somebody.
You write the email and then say, “Claude, please make this more professional and nice.”
Joe: I thought you were going to say when you’re there at 10:00 at night saying, “ChatGPT, why does nobody love me?”
And ChatGPT says, “Let’s talk about it.”
Joe: Last time we chatted, we talked about the emotional state of bookkeepers.
It can be a very high-stress job.
The average bookkeeper might be working for half a dozen or a dozen small business owners, and quite often the business owner doesn’t really understand what the bookkeeper does.
When things go wrong, it’s the bookkeeper’s fault.
When things go right, it’s just normal.
You’ve created a community with thousands of bookkeepers.
What’s the vibe like at the moment?
Kelly: We go through ups and downs.
Whenever there’s another compliance change, the group explodes with, “Why do we have to do this? This is so hard.”
It is mentally challenging.
A lot of us are very empathetic.
If our clients are having a bad time, struggling, or going through something difficult in their life, we tend to absorb some of that.
We do have a high level of mental health issues across the community.
Depression, anxiety, PTSD.
People aren’t alone out there.
We work with people through that a lot.
I was talking to someone today who said, “I’m overwhelmed. I’ve got two kids on the spectrum. I can’t get NDIS. I’m really struggling, and I still have to run my practice.”
There’s a lot of that.
Because bookkeeping is also majority women, we then have other factors like menopause on top of that.
That can be another huge challenge.
So people need support.
They need to know they’re not alone.
Joe: Another thing we talked about last time was the role accountants play in all of this.
We talked about how accountants can sometimes contribute to the vulnerability or insecurity bookkeepers feel by blaming them, not helping them understand how they want accounts handled, or not treating them like an extension of the practice.
Kelly: Absolutely.
The most common problem we see is communication.
A bookkeeper will reach out and say, “I’ve got this problem. How would you like to resolve it?”
Accountants all do things differently as well.
If we’re entering something like a car loan, we might ask, “How would you like it entered? Would you like us to do this or would you prefer to handle it?”
And often we get crickets.
Nothing.
That’s why I get so many random phone calls and messages from bookkeepers saying, “Help. The accountant isn’t helping us and we don’t know what to do.”
We need to support each other.
And this goes both ways.
It’s not just accountants.
There are BAS agents who don’t want to talk to accountants either.
There are BAS agents and accountants who hold software access hostage when a client moves.
That stuff is petty.
It’s not on.
We should be communicating better.
Ultimately, we are there for the client.
We should be working together to make sure the client has the right tax planning, tax support and clean books.
What I teach is balancing to the balance sheet.
That makes life much easier for the accountant at year-end.
They’ve got a clean balance sheet.
They’ve got the working papers showing how we reached the conclusion.
They’ve got the bank statements.
We’re trying to make their life easier.
But if they don’t communicate with us, we can’t do that.
Joe: What about the other way around?
You’ve admitted there are also subpar bookkeepers out there.
What can bookkeepers, or the bookkeeping industry, do better?
Kelly: I think it starts with TAFEs and universities.
They say, “You’ve got your degree now. You can go and be a bookkeeper or accountant.”
But when you look at some university degrees, they don’t actually cover much transactional bookkeeping.
It’s all overview.
You might have a CPA or CA qualification, and that’s fantastic, but that doesn’t automatically mean you understand the transactional side of bookkeeping.
That needs to be learned.
Otherwise everything ends up becoming a general journal, and it creates a mess.
On the BAS agent side, some people overstep too.
Some do depreciation and things that would traditionally sit with the accountant.
Sometimes they do it because the accountant doesn’t.
But we need to understand where the boundaries are and actually work together on those boundaries because every accountant is different.
Some accountants say, “Yes, please balance the balance sheet and tell me everything.”
Others say, “No, I’ll do that.”
But sometimes they don’t actually do it.
Then you end up with BAS agents saying, “Well, I don’t need to balance the balance sheet,” while the accountant isn’t doing it either.
We need to sit down and say, “You take that line. I take this line. We’re aligned. Great. Let’s move forward.”
If we’re not aligned, it turns into a mess over who does what.
There are also bookkeepers who stop learning because they think, “I’ve got my Cert IV. I’ve done accounts payable. I’m qualified to do everything.”
It’s not enough.
Joe: So if I were a business owner, I should insist that my accountant and bookkeeper work together.
Kelly: Yeah.
A lot of business owners do say, “Please work with my accountant,” or, “Please work with my bookkeeper.”
But the communication still doesn’t always happen.
Joe: What about practices that do both accounting and bookkeeping internally? Does that solve the problem?
Kelly: Not always.
I’ve seen accountants employ bookkeepers who simply can’t do the job properly.
Then the accountants don’t pick up on the mess because they don’t have the right processes and procedures in place to identify it.
Accountants don’t always work at the transactional level.
They need bookkeepers who can understand that side.
There are things like journals to bank accounts or trade debtors that shouldn’t necessarily be happening.
Sometimes the answer is simply: find the transaction problem and fix it properly.
There are so many red flags being missed by both accountants and bookkeepers.
The industry needs better training on both sides, and better support between both sides.
The only way we come together is through communication.
The client chose both of us.
We don’t get to ignore each other.
Joe: When should a business hire an internal bookkeeper?
Kelly: I think when the workload is getting too much for the contractor.
If you’re doing more than three days a week for that client, that’s when you should probably start talking about someone internal.
Then you’ve got somebody there more consistently, they can really understand what’s going on, and they can help keep the financials more up to date.
But most businesses don’t need a full-time bookkeeper anymore unless they’re very large.
There are so many systems and processes now that make the work much faster.
Joe: What about the actual business side of being a bookkeeper?
Do you help people with work-life balance and operating their business as well?
Kelly: Absolutely.
At retreats and workshops, I hear things like, “This client is still messaging me at 8:00 at night.”
And I say, “No. That is not on.”
I did it myself for a long time.
When I first started my business, I was working full-time in the city with a one-year-old.
I was doing bookkeeping after hours, so I was working six until ten at night.
Clients got used to thinking they could call me anytime.
When I later moved into structured hours, suddenly they’d say, “This doesn’t work for me anymore.”
But it didn’t work for me either.
So I had to put boundaries in place.
Now I’ll use automatic messages after five, or my email will ask, “Do you want to send this in the morning?”
And I say yes.
I don’t want to show clients that I’m up all hours because then they think they can contact me at all hours.
You need boundaries.
And you need to be able to say no.
That’s a major issue in the industry because bookkeepers are often so giving and nurturing.
We want to be as helpful as possible.
No can be a very hard word.
Joe: How do you teach somebody who isn’t used to saying no how to say no?
Kelly: Through systems.
When I do implementation sessions, I’ll say, “Set up your email so it prompts you to schedule this for the morning.”
Turn your phone off.
Put it on Do Not Disturb.
My phone automatically goes onto Do Not Disturb, except for favourites, which is my family.
At six o’clock, I’m not available.
There can be exceptions.
If I have a mentee who can only work after hours, I can compromise.
But even then, there’s still a cutoff.
You need systems that help you switch off.
Joe: Do you think AI is a threat to the bookkeeper?
Kelly: No.
I think it’s going to enhance what we do and give us the opportunity to expand what we offer.
Everyone talks about advisory, advisory, advisory.
But honestly, if the client doesn’t want it, it isn’t going to happen.
A lot of clients don’t want to know about cash flows or budgets until they get to a point where they suddenly realise they need them.
Some don’t even want to look at their P&L or balance sheet.
They’ll say, “There’s money in the bank. It’s fine.”
I think changes like payday super are going to shake a lot of businesses up and force more awareness around cash flow.
That may make advisory easier to offer because businesses will become more aware that they need to understand what’s happening financially.
Joe: Imagine somebody listening to this has no idea what you mean by payday super.
What do you mean by payday super?
Kelly: First of all, get educated.
If you’re not on my newsletter, get on board.
You need to be on an association newsletter, listening to industry podcasts, listening to Bookkeepers Radio or otherwise staying engaged with what’s happening.
When QMS came in, I still had bookkeepers months later asking, “Do I need to do that?”
You need to stay informed.
Payday super means that from 1 July, when you make a pay run, superannuation needs to be paid in connection with that pay cycle rather than handled later the way businesses have traditionally done it.
Joe: And at the same time you’ve also got tranche two AML changes?
Kelly: Yes.
Joe: Are they related?
Kelly: No. They’re two separate things from two different entities.
Payday super is ATO.
AML is AUSTRAC.
Joe: Who timed that?
Kelly: Exactly.
A lot of accountants will fall under AML obligations because of the type of services they provide.
There are also bookkeeping scenarios where it can apply depending on things like access to client bank accounts, payment approvals and the way you interact with certain financial processes.
Some bookkeepers are responding by training clients to make their own payments and reducing unnecessary access.
It’s another example of why the industry has to stay on top of change.
Joe: Let’s wrap this up with three questions.
They’re basically the same question directed at different people.
First: if you could give one piece of advice to a small business owner about getting the most out of their bookkeeper — whether they’re a contractor or internal — what would it be?
Kelly: Work with them on systems.
Create systems the business owner can understand and the bookkeeper can work with.
Because if that bookkeeper disappears, retires or moves on, there needs to be a process for the next person.
You need continuity.
And embrace tools like AI as a second brain.
Don’t be afraid of it.
See what it can do.
Play with it.
It doesn’t have to do everything for you, but if it can save even a small amount of time and give you more time with family, kids, partners or travel, that’s valuable.
Joe: Second question.
Same question in reverse.
You’re talking to a bookkeeper.
What can they do to create a better working rhythm with their small business client?
Kelly: Make sure you know what you’re doing.
Joe: Become trained?
Kelly: Yes.
Joe: Very simple and very effective.
We happen to know somebody who does bookkeeper training. Her name is Kelly.
Where can Kelly’s bookkeeping training materials be found?
Kelly: On my website, bookkeepersupport.com.au.
All my prices are there, all my training options, courses, lunch and learns, checklists — everything.
Joe: Final question.
To the accountants: what do accountants need to do better to support bookkeepers?
Kelly: Communicate.
If you want something done a certain way, talk to the bookkeeper and say, “Can we do it this way?”
That only helps us do better.
If you need information for tax planning, tell us.
If you want tax planning done by the end of quarter three, tell us so we know what needs to be ready in April.
It’s all about communication.
Joe: So for bookkeepers: get trained.
For SMBs: develop systems so there’s continuity and life is easier for everybody.
For accountants: communicate with the bookkeeper.
That’s simple, actionable feedback for everyone in that food chain.
How can people find the Bookkeeper Support group on Facebook?
Kelly: Bookkeeper Support Group Australia is the group, and that’s specifically for Australians.
Then we’ve got Bookkeeper Support, which is my business page. That’s where people can see the events and everything else happening.
Joe: Anything else you want to add?
Kelly: If you don’t know something, ask.
It’s as simple as that.
You don’t have to flounder around by yourself.
You are not alone.
If you’re struggling, book a free 15-minute chat with me.
Tell me what’s going on.
Maybe I can help, or maybe I can steer you in the right direction.
But don’t sit there and bury your head in the sand.
It doesn’t work.
Joe: Free 15 minutes sounds great.
Thanks so much, Kelly. It’s been a pleasure.
Kelly: You’re most welcome. It’s been fun, Joe.